2023 speakers are being identified. See below for who spoke at the 2022 conference.
Daniel Burrus Daniel Burrus
Daniel Burrus is a New York Times bestselling author of seven books, including his latest book The Anticipatory Organization: Turn Change and Disruption Into Opportunity and Advantage. He is considered to be one of the world’s leading technology forecasters and disruptive innovation experts and is a strategic advisor to Fortune 500 executives helping them to profit from technological, social and business forces that are converging to create enormous, untapped opportunities. Over the past 35 years, he has established a worldwide reputation for his exceptional record of accurately predicting the future of technological change and its direct impact on the business world. The New York Times has referred to him as one of the top three business gurus.
Theodore Flo Theodore Flo
Chief Legal Officer
Theodore Flo is Zest AI's Chief Legal Officer and leads legal, policy, and compliance teams to serve every stakeholder of our mission-driven company. Before Zest AI, he spent more than a decade in D.C. as a trusted legal advisor to dozens of consumer financial services companies, including international banks, credit card issuers, mortgage lenders, student loan servicers, and others.
Lamont Black Lamont Black
Professor Lamont Black is a recognized expert on cryptocurrency and blockchain who is a regularly invited speaker for conferences, board presentations, and the media. His teaching on cryptocurrency at DePaul covers aspects of money and investing and has been featured in the Chicago Tribune. In his graduate course on blockchain, he works with business and computer science students to build real-world blockchain applications. Dr. Black also teaches courses on money, banking, financial markets, and data analytics.
Prior to joining DePaul, Professor Black was an economist at the Federal Reserve in Washington D.C., where he focused on bank regulation. He served at the Board of Governors from 2005 to 2013, primarily under Chairman Ben Bernanke during the financial crisis. Dr. Black received a PhD in Finance as well as Economics from Indiana University and his undergraduate degree from Stanford University. Please visit his personal website https://lamontblack.com for additional information about his research, teaching, and speaking.
Kathleen Maley Kathleen Maley
VP of Analytics Products
Kathleen Maley is an analytics thought-leader and the current VP of Analytics Products at Experian. She has deep expertise in business intelligence, analytics, predictive modeling, machine learning and business strategy and has previously held executive positions in analytics at banks and Fortune 500 companies.
John Arnold John Arnold
VP, Business Services
AmeriCU Credit Union
John Arnold has over 30 years in the financial services industry, working with international & regional banks, and has been at AmeriCU for over seven years. AmeriCU has recently expanded their business services group to add business online banking and cash management services. AmeriCU is over 70 years old and is in Central New York. It is among the State's largest, full-service financial cooperatives.
Jennifer Bass Jennifer Bass
AVP Mortgage Operations
Mountain America Credit Union
Jennifer Bass is the AVP of Operations for the Mortgage Services department of Mountain America Credit Union. Mountain America’s corporate office is located in Utah and the credit union has branches in five additional western states. With over 30 years in mortgage lending, including 13 years with the credit union, Jennifer has extensive lending experience. She has worked in several positions from processing through secondary marketing. This knowledge has been instrumental as she successfully leads a high-tech, high-touch mortgage closing, underwriting and construction teams that deliver top-notch service with both accuracy and speed. Jennifer is a proponent for electronic mortgage loan closings and her team has been instrumental in developing and implementing Mountain America’s paperless initiative, QuickClose. She has a passion for learning and completed the Westminster College Mastering in Leadership program.
Kathy Brandl Kathy Brandl
Loan Operations Manager
Simplicity Credit Union
Kathy Brandl joined the Simplicity Credit Union team in 2003. With more than 20 years of experience in the mortgage industry, she is skilled in all facets of mortgages. Kathy currently is responsible for managing processors and underwriters, testing software systems used in operations and looking for new ways to use available technology.
Joseph Breeden Joseph Breeden
Deep Future Analytics LLC
Dr. Joseph Breeden has been designing and deploying risk management systems for loan portfolios since 1996. He founded Deep Future Analytics in 2011, which focuses on portfolio and loan-level forecasting solutions for pricing optimization, stress testing, and CECL. Joseph is also the owner of auctionforecast.com, which predicts the values of fine wines using a proprietary database with over 2.5 million auction prices. He is member of the board of directors of Upgrade, a San Francisco-based FinTech; an Associate Editor for the Journal of Credit Risk, the Journal of Risk Model Validation, and the Journal of Risk and Financial Management; and President of the Model Risk Managers’ International Association (mrmia.org).
Joseph earned a Ph.D. in physics, and has published over 80 academic articles, 8 patents, and 4 books. His upcoming book, Creating Artificial General Intelligence and Preventing the AI Apocalypse will be published in Spring 2023.
Joanne Brooks Joanne Brooks
Consumer Lending Training Manager
Ent Credit Union
Joanne Brooks has taken the Manager of Consumer Lending Training & Development to new levels at Ent Credit Union. A passionate advocate for learning and thinking outside the box, she has committed to the development and success of all Ent team members. In 2018, Joanne raised her hand to join the committee tasked with creating the EntRANCE Trainee program, a program dedicated to high-potential Ent team members, rotating through consumer lending departments over two years. After much success, the program is now on its 4th consecutive year. Joanne uses her 30 years of banking and credit union industry experience including three years with military banking in Karlsruhe and Stuttgart, Germany to breathe new life into the consumer lending departments. In her 24 years with Ent, Joanne has held various positions, to include managing the consumer lending processing team and for the last four years, the lending training department.
Mark Chandler Mark Chandler
Credit Union Leasing of America (CULA)
Mark Chandler is VP Business Development of Credit Union Leasing of America (CULA), the leader in indirect vehicle leasing for credit unions, offering a solution that helps credit unions increase yield, diversify their portfolios, capture additional business from current members and increase membership. Mark is an automobile finance expert with over thirty years of experience serving credit unions and their members by assisting them with their car-buying needs. Before joining CULA, he was an executive coach and consultant in finance technology and spent nearly 20 years at Autoland, then the nation’s largest credit union car buying service, where he concluded his tenure in the role of company president.
Rochelle Clausnitzer Rochelle Clausnitzer
Director of Consumer Servicing Operations
Rochelle Clausnitzer is the Director of Consumer Servicing Operations at WSECU, responsible for the strategic direction, vision, and performance of WSECU’s collections and servicing departments. As a seasoned professional with more than 12 years of collections experience, Rochelle is known for automating and optimizing WSECU’s collection activities. Her passion for behavioral science and technology has played a vital role in providing financial support to members while mitigating delinquency. WSECU leverages their internal relationship-based collection score model which allows her collections team to focus on an empathetic and supportive collections strategy, which in turn, supports WSECU’s promise of championing their members’ financial well-being.
Jim Dages Jim Dages
VP Commercial Patelco CU
Patelco Credit Union
Jim Dages has 30 years’ experience in commercial Lending, strategy development, data, and analytics, change management and innovation. He has expertise in technology products and programs that enable strategy, integrate systems, and organize human resources. Jim has designed and implemented the Business Banking Program at Bank of America, purchased, and sold billions of dollars in consumer and CRE loans in the secondary market. He has built business banking and loan participation programs at three credit unions.
John Davis John Davis
SVP, Member Business
San Francisco, CA
John Davis has 29+ of banking industry experience and leads the Member Business team at FHLBank San Francisco, which is responsible for managing all aspects of member relationships and selling the Bank’s products. In addition, he has an advisory role in developing the Bank’s strategic plans. John has experience in asset and liability management from his time in Wells Fargo’s Management Sciences group and in liquidity management, funding, and interest rate derivatives through his work in FHLBank San Francisco’s Capital Markets group. He developed many of the funding and hedging products currently offered by FHLBank San Francisco. John has a BA in International Relations, Economics emphasis, from the University of California at Davis, and an MBA in Finance from the Monterey Institute of International Studies. He is also a graduate of the Pacific Coast Banking School.
Mary-Carol Ennis Mary-Carol Ennis
Quality Control Manager
Mary-Carol Ennis joined UNIFY in 2016 as the Quality Control Manager, and held that position, which included QC, HMDA, and the Credit Union's Fair Lending Program until she transitioned to the head of the Real Estate department in 2019. In her current role, she is responsible for the direction and oversight of all aspects of mortgage, including mortgage sales and originations, mortgage fulfillment operations, underwriting, secondary markets, mortgage servicing, as well as the strategic growth of UNIFY's mortgage and servicing business.
Sean Flynn Sean Flynn
Senior Director - Community Financial Institutions
Sean Flynn is a community lender at heart, spending his entire career in and around the credit union and community bank industries. At TransUnion, Sean’s responsibilities include developing TransUnion’s presence in the credit union and community bank markets by helping to shape and execute TransUnion’s community lending strategy. He enjoys helping institutions solve their most pressing business issues with data solutions, strategies, and consultation. Before his work on the partner side of the business, Sean held management roles in lending and retail with various credit unions on the East coast. He earned his degree in Finance from the University of New Hampshire and his MBA from Norwich University in Vermont, where the topic of his capstone project was change leadership in credit unions.
Jeff Forsgren Jeff Forsgren
Chief Lending Officer
Members Trust of the Southwest FCU
Jeff Forsgren has been in credit unions and lending for nearly 20 years filling many roles from part-time teller to his current role as Chief Lending Officer for Members Trust of the Southwest FCU in Houston. Jeff loves helping members and employees achieve their financial and career dreams. In every role Jeff seeks for efficiency, improvement, and excellence. He has excelled in all types of lending driving growth, improving the member experience, driving profitability, and reducing compliance errors.
Hayley Harrison Hayley Harrison
VP, Business Operations
Hayley Harrison drives the world of banking forward as an innovative and member-focused leader. She has led the way with numerous automation and innovation efforts throughout several financial institutions across the nation. Hayley also educates future economists as an Adjunct Professor at the University of Southern Indiana. During her time as a Senior Member of the BSA/AML Systems team, she engineered technical design, galvanized code development, and drafted mathematical algorithms for money laundering scenario triage. As Vice President of Business Operations, Hayley enforces consistency and security to ensure a strategy that gives our clients confidence and control of the member experience. Her in-depth knowledge of economics and commercial credit inspires her to flip the script on the outdated perception of banking to an enhanced process that embraces technology to ensure quantifiable digital transformation.
Mary Ann Herne Mary Ann Herne
VP Business Development
Mary Ann Herne is a credit union professional with over 40 Years of experience in all aspects of our industry. From working as a Member Service Representative to Leading the Services and Installation team for a Credit Union Core provider to Serving on a Credit Union Board, Mary Ann has committed her career to this industry. For the last 18 years with Cubus, she has been helping credit unions to provide members and staff, online, real time solutions to create a digital banking experience that makes staff and members happy. With her business development expertise and comprehensive customer care background, Mary Ann plays a pivotal role in building and maintaining CUBUS Solutions' strong relationships in the credit union industry.
Greg Hill Greg Hill
Alloya Corporate FCU
Greg Hill is currently working with Alloya Corporate Federal Credit Union on Strategic Initiatives. He helped develop a Loan Participation Platform as well as several other Capital Markets initiatives with the Corporate over the past four years. Greg is a former Credit Union CEO in Colorado and current chairman of a regional commercial and mortgage lending CUSO. He has over 25 years of experience with credit unions with a focus in the lending area. Greg has a bachelor’s degree in economics from the University of Nebraska and an MBA from the University of Kansas.
Sarah Horten Sarah Horten
Chief Lending Officer
Kirtland Credit Union
Sarah Horten is currently the Chief Lending officer at Kirtland Credit Union. She is a passionate servant leader with a dream to inspire others to reach their potential. Developing strong relationships with employees and members feeds Sarah’s passion for service to others. She has over 30 years’ experience in financial institutions. Her early days working at community banks allowed her to gain experience and knowledge; however, her time participating in the credit union movement has given her the opportunity to be part of something bigger. Sarah’s dedication, hard work and determination has led her career from an entry-level bookkeeping position to earn her a seat at the C-Suite table.
Steven Houle Steven Houle
Vice President, Advisory Services
Catalyst Strategic Solutions
Steven Houle is responsible for managing the day-to-day operations of the Advisory Service and setting its long-term strategic direction. He also works directly with credit unions to assist them with their strategic financial and investment management endeavors. Steven joined the Catalyst Strategic Solutions team in 2006. Previously, he worked at Concentra Financial, where he was responsible for managing the investment and derivative portfolios of client financial institutions, including credit unions, in Western Canada. Steven’s other key roles included analyzing interest rate risk simulation results and key performance indicators of client credit unions and recommending appropriate strategies while considering the balance sheet positions and the economic environment.
Steven graduated from the University of Regina with a bachelor's degree in business administration. He holds Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) and Financial Risk Manager (FRM) designations.
Jerry Hubbard Jerry Hubbard
FHN Financial Capital Assets Corp
Jerry Hubbard is President of FHN Financial Capital Assets Corp. (“Capital Assets”), the loan & servicing asset management and advisory services arm of FHN Financial. As President of Capital Assets for more than 30 years, Jerry has overseen the full spectrum of services offered by the group’s professional staff of CPA’s, financial analysts, loan portfolio advisors and operations specialists. Jerry’s expertise includes loan portfolio risk management, whole bank acquisitions, balance sheet strategies, asset management workout plans, and all facets of loan operations.
Jerry has served on many industry-related committees and boards and has authored numerous articles on a variety of loan portfolio topics. As the former sole owner of a thrift institution that was the largest servicer of mortgage loans in the nation for its asset category, he understands first-hand the complexity of issues required to successfully manage a loan portfolio.
James Keith James Keith
National Sales Director
Financial Asset Services, Inc.
James Keith is the National Sales Director for Financial Asset Services, Inc. He oversees the day-to-day operations of the sales team. As the firms’ National Sales Director, James works closely with the Valuations, REO, Compliance and Technologies departments to ensure the highest level of service for our clients. He has over two decades of financial services experience. His tenure includes high profile management positions at well-established firms. His sales, operations and executive background were valuable as the Market Director for firms such as JP Morgan Chase. James has worked in diverse and challenging markets, from California to Chicago to Atlanta.
Annitte Lujan Annitte Lujan
Vice President of Consumer Lending
Annitte Lujan joined Kirtland Credit Union in 2019 as their Vice President of Consumer Lending and oversees the credit union's lending teams as well as the Card Services Department. Prior to joining Kirtland Credit Union, she was the Executive Vice President/Chief Lending Officer for Zia Credit Union. She is a graduate of Northern NM College and Western States School of Banking. Annitte has 34 years of financial institution experience, beginning her career as a teller.
Rob Macari Rob Macari
Director of Sales - National Accounts
Rob Macari began his career with LSI more than 23 years ago, after graduating from the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, managing the Midwest region. He currently Manages LSI’s National Sales Division which is responsible for over 40% of LSI’s revenue. Rob is focused on working with his partners to help deliver positive experiences to their members through LSI's #AlwaysLIVE support. In today’s mobile world partners can be assured that their members can connect anytime, anywhere. His passion and positive attitude reflect the Best-in-Class Service, which LSI prides itself on.
Scott Miller Scott Miller
Sr. Solutions Consultant
Scott Miller has been in banking for 40+ years serving roles as Commercial Lender, Business Banker, OCC Bank Examiner, consultant, and core processing operations consultant. He has 25 years of Business Banking / Treasury Management Experience.
Logan Mohtashami Logan Mohtashami
Logan Mohtashami is a housing data analyst, financial writer, and blogger covering the U.S. economy specializing in the housing market. He is also a Lead Analyst for HousingWire. Logan has been an invited speaker to many conferences and is a frequent guest on CNBC. Logan, now retired, has been called a social media star by National Mortgage News and “the chart guy.” His astute analysis of economic data and years of direct lending experience allows him to present a unique, informed, and unbiased perspective on the financial markets.
Toni Molinari, CPA, CIA Toni Molinari, CPA, CIA
Senior Product Manager
Toni Molinari, CPA, CIA is a Senior Product Manager for nCino’s Portfolio Analytics Solution. Her background is in accounting and auditing having worked previously as a bank examiner with the Office of Thrift Supervision and as an auditor with a community bank and a boutique auditing firm focused on financial institutions. Toni serves on the Board of a community bank and is a member of the Audit Committee. She also serves as an economics professor at Brown University teaching financial accounting. She has served as a member of the AICPA’s Exam Committee for the CPA exam and a member of the MSCPA Accounting Committee responding to proposed accounting standards to further the development of GAAP. Toni is a certified public accountant, a certified internal auditor, holds a B.A. in Economics, and an MBA. She is also a graduate of the ABA Stonier School of Banking and Wharton Leadership program.
Perica Obradovic Perica Obradovic
VP, Mortgage Servicing
Truity Federal Credit Union
Perica Obradovic was born and raised in Serbia. He played soccer most of his life which allowed him an opportunity to come to the US and continue his journey back in 2013. Perica got involved in the Credit Union movement in 2019 with Truity Federal Credit Union and is currently servicing as VP, Mortgage Servicing (previously served as VP, Credit Resolutions). During the last three years he was privileged to be exposed to many different areas of the credit union which allowed him to get a better overall understanding of both mission and values the credit union embodies.
Kari Olson Kari Olson
Director of Lending & Accts Control
MountainCrest Credit Union
Kari Olson has 27 years with WECU as their Member Solutions Manager, 10 years with Qualstar Credit Union as their Member Solutions Manager and so far, has 1 year with MountainCrest Credit Union as their Director of Lending & Accounts Control. Kari has been a part of the NWCUCA, from Area Rep, Board member, President back to board member. Even though I now oversee lending, collections is still my jam!
Brian Pannell Brian Pannell
Chief eServices Executive
Brian Pannell serves as Chief eServices Executive for DocMagic. In this role, he has managerial responsibility for all post-sales activities for customers who are adding eMortgage and eChattel capabilities (eSign, eNotary and eVault) as well as Post-Closing (e.g. MERS eRegistry) technologies and efficiencies to their business models. With extensive experience in the evolution of eMortgage and eChattel solutions, Brian has initiated industry leading implementation processes for DocMagic’s entire suite of eSolutions. Prior to joining the organization, Brian was VP of Client Services for eSignSystems. He also spent 17 years at Fannie Mae where he served as a Senior Manager responsible for the building and development of strategic third-party technology and business relationships.
Kevin Polinsky Kevin Polinsky
Senior Director, SaaS Platform Sales
CUNA Mutual Group
Kevin Polinsky is the Senior Director, SaaS Platform Sales for CUNA Mutual Group. His entrepreneurial approach to leadership and sales helps the team readily uncover pain points to bring credit unions solutions that best fit their unique needs. Kevin has a reputation for encouraging creative, non-traditional problem-solving capabilities to drive success across teams.
Before joining AdvantEdge Digital, Kevin led the Financial Institution sales team of Compliance Systems. In this role, he drove continued growth of the client base working in concert with an extensive Lending, Deposit, and Core FinTech partner network. Kevin holds a Bachelor of Business Administration (BBA) with a Dual Concentration in Business and Marketing.
Arleen Scavonne Arleen Scavonne
Newbold Advisors, LLC
Arleen Scavone founded and was CEO of her former company Operational Excellence, a mortgage consultancy, for nearly a decade. She continues to lead a consultancy practice with Newbold Advisors applying a 30-year successful track record of operations, sales, and service in both corporate and entrepreneurial roles. Arlene’s expertise includes enabling operational excellence through executing transformation in both large and small Credit Unions.
Arleen is also a passionate, life-long baker at heart, achieving an unprecedented three-peat win on Food Network’s Cupcake Wars. She speaks nationally at business, women, and youth foundations, in addition to her speaking engagements for CUNA Conferences.
Vaughn Simmons Vaughn Simmons
VP, Business Services
AmeriCU Credit Union
Vaughn Simmons is the VP of Account Resolutions at Kirtland Credit Union. He has worked with Kirtland since March 2020, and his credit union experience dates to June 2010. Vaughn has worked over 30 years in the field of collections, with over 20 years in management.
Barry Sloane Barry Sloane
President, Chairman and CEO
Newtek Business Services Corp
Barry Sloane is the President, Chairman and CEO of Newtek Business Services Corp. Prior to joining Newtek Business Services, he was a Managing Director of Smith Barney, Inc. where he directed the Commercial and Residential Real Estate Securitization Unit and, prior to that, he was national sales manager for institutional mortgage and asset backed securities sales. Barry was founder and President of Aegis Capital Markets, a consumer loan origination and securitization business. Additionally, he was Senior Vice President of Donaldson, Lufkin and Jenrette, where he was responsible for directing sales of mortgage-backed securities and was a senior mortgage security salesperson and trader for Bear Stearns, L.F. Rothschild, E.F. Hutton and Paine Webber.
Diane Sokolik Diane Sokolik
VP Consumer Lending
TwinStar Credit Union
Diane Sokolik oversees Consumer Production, Loan Support, Lending Product Manager, Lending Analyst and Account Solutions Departments. In this role, she is accountable for loan growth, asset management, product strategy, pricing, and credit risk. Responsibilities include establishing strategy, direction, objectives while maintaining frictionless member experiences, designing, and implementing credit risk analytics for loan portfolio management and allowance for loan loss discussions. Diane participates on the following committees: Consumer Lending Account Solutions (CLAS), ALLL, ALCO, CUSO-CUDD Operations, and RMCO.
Mark Stafford Mark Stafford
Mark Stafford believes software has the power to fundamentally improve everyday life. For 20 years, he has been focused on simplifying processes that are too complicated and labor-intensive. His current focus is streamlining closing mortgage, home equity, and other loans at Blend. In past lives, Mark has worked for Stripe helping customers easily and accurately generate 1099 forms, and at Microsoft he dramatically simplified the life of developers using multiple APIs. He is always interested in learning more about people and the challenges they face day-to-day.
Kent Staudmyer Kent Staudmyer
Vice President of Sales
Kent Staudmyer brings over 30 years of experience working in the financial services industry. His expertise is focused on consulting with financial institutions on the implementation of home equity and consumer loan programs which increase loan growth and drive additional interest income. Kent’s assisted senior management, board of directors, and loss mitigation personnel in their understanding and evaluation of insured loan programs that protect against default risk, foreclosures, and assist with regulatory compliance. He has also worked in the loan origination and loss-mitigation areas of major financial institutions, giving him a broad view of lending from all perspectives.
Michelle Stratton-Busek Michelle Stratton-Busek
Manager, Member Loan Center
Michelle Stratton-Busek is a solutions-focused, high-energy leader with 20+ years of leadership experience, seven of that being in Home Equity Lending. She is a customer centric leader who is determined to provide dynamic results, process improvements, and focused on team member growth opportunities. During her time with WSECU, Michelle had the opportunity to assist with creating and leading the Home Equity department which consistently achieved outstanding service levels, high production, and surpassed industry standards in turn times. She most recently was promoted to the Member Loan Center Manager and oversees the day-to-day processing and funding operations for all consumer loans through direct and indirect channels and monitors our dealership network of 650+ dealers.
John Toohig John Toohig
John Toohig is a Managing Director at Raymond James, a Board Member and President of Raymond James Mortgage Company, Inc., and Head of the Whole Loan Group. He joined Raymond James (formerly Morgan Keegan) in September of 2006. As Head of the Whole Loan Group, John’s primary responsibilities include day-to-day trading of whole loan packages, portfolio analysis, transaction management and the structuring of whole loan, participation, and various structured products. John’s product focus encompasses both seasoned and new production: residential mortgages (both QM and Non-QM), commercial mortgages, consumer lending, fintech lending, scratch and dent loans, and non-performing assets. John received his undergraduate degree from the Houghton College and his MBA from the University of Mississippi with a focus in finance and IT. John has his Series 7, 24 and Series 63 licenses.
Kymrie Turner Kymrie Turner
Vice President of Direct Lending
America First Credit Union
Kymrie Turner is the Vice President of Direct Lending at America First Credit Union. She oversees Direct Consumer Underwriting, Consumer Loan Processing, Consumer Loan Servicing, and the Inbound and Outbound Sales teams. She is passionate about the Credit Union industry and has spent the last 22 years of her 25-year Credit Union career at America First. In 2016, Kymrie graduated from CUNA Management School with honors and a Certified Credit Union Executive designation. She is currently working towards her degree in Business Management at Western Governors University and will be finishing her MBA in 2024.
Linda Moynihan Vance Linda Moynihan Vance
Hart Credit Technology
Linda Moynihan Vance focuses on helping customers leverage the most intelligent data available in the market today. Helping Hart customers reach their business goals and serve their members with Hart’s industry-leading technology is Linda’s number one goal. She comes on board after being with TransUnion, LLC for 18 years where she most recently served as a subject matter expert on trended and alternative data as a director in Global Credit Risk Solutions.
Linda received her bachelor’s degree in Social Welfare from the University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee and a master’s degree in Business Management, with a thesis on Creativity and Innovation in Financial Services, from the University of Wisconsin - Green Bay. She completed certification from the University of Notre Dame on Women in Leadership in late 2019.